The Danish state did much worse things than this in the last century: not only as regards the treatment of the Greenlanders, but also as regards eugenics in the service of social engineering.
These stories are slow to be discussed here because they are taboo, and also because Danes are taught in school that a highly developed welfare state is by definition progressive and therefore virtuous. But most Western countries have ghastly episodes hiding in the closet - especially with regard to eugenics, disability, unmarried pregnancies, and racial policies. I don't think Denmark deserves extra castigation for illiberalism and official racism just because of the idiotic books people publish about Danish happiness and hygge. The Danes can't really be blamed for those.
Yes. And slow to be recognised at home. But they’ll get there.
My impression is that the eugenics thing happened in virtually all European countries before the 2WW. And Greenlander policies are a remnant of that, yes. But it’s a mistake to think that the Danish state is liberal. Quite the contrary, still.
*Added later*: specifically, it happened right through what you might call Teutonic Europe. Def. Germany, but also all the Scandinavian countries. Also very probably British policies, I just don’t know. You can argue that in Germany it formed a basis on which Hitlerian race hatred could graft itself. But racial & eugenic views were so influential at this time. Look up the French count Arthur de Gobineau, the pioneer of pseudo-scientific race theory. Racial anxiety is also there in the fin-de-siècle movement.
Things like this happen in the US as well, unsurprisingly. When my wife worked with victims of domestic violence, Child Protective Services was often distinctly unhelpful. While the home lives of the children were hardly ideal, CPS would take children away from a parent who loved them and into a worse situation in the foster care system.
I was shocked at how much discretion CPS had, how recklessly they used it, and how little legal recourse had the parents.
Henry, this case may be as appalling as you feel it is, however, I suspect there may be more to the story. In the United States, there is a movement to recast the foster system as racist, which has contributed to minority children being left in terrible situations (this is a particular problem in NYC, which has had many terrible child death cases). The NYT is likely viewing this story through the "foster care is racist" lens.
I am very sorry for Ms. Bronlund, but it seems that the authorities believe she is a danger to the baby in some way, as the article says, "If her mother took the baby, she said she was told, she would have to move out." Maybe they are wrong and this is a terrible miscarriage of justice! But in the comments, one of the authors of the piece writes in response to a comment:
"Peter, thanks for your comment. I'm one of the reporters who worked on this piece and appreciate your thoughts.
It's definitely a complex issue, and officials aren't getting into specifics, citing privacy concerns. So I spoke with several experts, as well as psychologists in Denmark who both administer the assessments and teach other psychologists how to administer them, too.
Although they were all hesitant to speak directly to the case, many said that the time she is allowed to be with her baby, and the speed with which the baby was removed after birth, indicated that the examiners had serious concerns.
We're going to continue to follow her case. Thanks for reading."
All of this is simply to say that there are two sides to every story, and one side can't really defend itself here because of privacy concerns.
The NYT is also notoriously ill-informed on European culture - witness the various “This is how the British/French/Italians make tea/cook [X]” etc. These aren’t even the unfair stereotypes that go in the opposite direction but delusions with a fairly obvious undertone of “these weird foreigners…”
This is a very fair note of caution. In my own, admittedly (blessedly?) thirdhand, knowledge of similar situations in the US, the thing that shocked me was the apparent lack of "due process" protections around taking a child away. The burden was placed on the parent to "disprove" Child Protective Services, and there wasn't even any clear mechanism in place by which they could do so. This seems terribly backwards to me.
How sad. I had eight children and they are all wonderful people-not criminals, but neither are they doctors or lawyers. I wonder if I would have been deemed incompetent.
Henry, This story is true, and it's bad, and it's not uncommon, still, as you cite. A better source for that than the New York Times is this from the Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.cfr.org/blog/women-week-denmark-issues-apology-greenland-over-forced-sterilization .
The Danish state did much worse things than this in the last century: not only as regards the treatment of the Greenlanders, but also as regards eugenics in the service of social engineering.
https://nordics.info/show/artikel/eugenics-in-the-nordic-countries
These stories are slow to be discussed here because they are taboo, and also because Danes are taught in school that a highly developed welfare state is by definition progressive and therefore virtuous. But most Western countries have ghastly episodes hiding in the closet - especially with regard to eugenics, disability, unmarried pregnancies, and racial policies. I don't think Denmark deserves extra castigation for illiberalism and official racism just because of the idiotic books people publish about Danish happiness and hygge. The Danes can't really be blamed for those.
Thanks for link will read. Just appalling.
Yes. And slow to be recognised at home. But they’ll get there.
My impression is that the eugenics thing happened in virtually all European countries before the 2WW. And Greenlander policies are a remnant of that, yes. But it’s a mistake to think that the Danish state is liberal. Quite the contrary, still.
*Added later*: specifically, it happened right through what you might call Teutonic Europe. Def. Germany, but also all the Scandinavian countries. Also very probably British policies, I just don’t know. You can argue that in Germany it formed a basis on which Hitlerian race hatred could graft itself. But racial & eugenic views were so influential at this time. Look up the French count Arthur de Gobineau, the pioneer of pseudo-scientific race theory. Racial anxiety is also there in the fin-de-siècle movement.
Things like this happen in the US as well, unsurprisingly. When my wife worked with victims of domestic violence, Child Protective Services was often distinctly unhelpful. While the home lives of the children were hardly ideal, CPS would take children away from a parent who loved them and into a worse situation in the foster care system.
I was shocked at how much discretion CPS had, how recklessly they used it, and how little legal recourse had the parents.
Yes it’s awful isn’t it how much children’s lives can be overrun
They object to Trump trying to annex Greenland, and then they do this.
Henry, this case may be as appalling as you feel it is, however, I suspect there may be more to the story. In the United States, there is a movement to recast the foster system as racist, which has contributed to minority children being left in terrible situations (this is a particular problem in NYC, which has had many terrible child death cases). The NYT is likely viewing this story through the "foster care is racist" lens.
I am very sorry for Ms. Bronlund, but it seems that the authorities believe she is a danger to the baby in some way, as the article says, "If her mother took the baby, she said she was told, she would have to move out." Maybe they are wrong and this is a terrible miscarriage of justice! But in the comments, one of the authors of the piece writes in response to a comment:
"Peter, thanks for your comment. I'm one of the reporters who worked on this piece and appreciate your thoughts.
It's definitely a complex issue, and officials aren't getting into specifics, citing privacy concerns. So I spoke with several experts, as well as psychologists in Denmark who both administer the assessments and teach other psychologists how to administer them, too.
Although they were all hesitant to speak directly to the case, many said that the time she is allowed to be with her baby, and the speed with which the baby was removed after birth, indicated that the examiners had serious concerns.
We're going to continue to follow her case. Thanks for reading."
All of this is simply to say that there are two sides to every story, and one side can't really defend itself here because of privacy concerns.
The NYT is also notoriously ill-informed on European culture - witness the various “This is how the British/French/Italians make tea/cook [X]” etc. These aren’t even the unfair stereotypes that go in the opposite direction but delusions with a fairly obvious undertone of “these weird foreigners…”
This is a very fair note of caution. In my own, admittedly (blessedly?) thirdhand, knowledge of similar situations in the US, the thing that shocked me was the apparent lack of "due process" protections around taking a child away. The burden was placed on the parent to "disprove" Child Protective Services, and there wasn't even any clear mechanism in place by which they could do so. This seems terribly backwards to me.
But why did they take away her child a birth? Did she d something criminal? If not, this seems nightmarish.
The NYT says she failed a "parental competency test".
How sad. I had eight children and they are all wonderful people-not criminals, but neither are they doctors or lawyers. I wonder if I would have been deemed incompetent.