I have one strong opinion. Wolf Hall is a better book than Bring Up The Bodies because it has to do the hard work of creating the man Cromwell and his world and it does it so well. I love the entire trilogy. Thanks for the list to go fishing.
I agree, David: Wolf Hall is the better novel. They are written in different styles, of course: the second has more traits of the 'thriller' than the first, and maybe that meant it had more popular appeal.
“Bodies” definitely has more Netflix series appeal! It’s interesting that BBC combined the first two books. I thought it was such a great adaptation. Most of the dialogue is from the novels.
I agree - BUTB is perfect for Netflix: plenty of action and sharp dialogue, whereas Wolf Hall is more 'Literary' in style, though there are superb set-piece dramatic scenes and images in it, too. I would have put both Mantel novels on any list of 'best novels' in place of certain others that have been selected. I also loved the BBC adaptation which was very well done.
It must just be me, because while the rest of the world fetes and lauds Sally Rooney, I find her novels almost unbelievably dull. Honestly, I tried, but kept dropping the book and jolting myself awake. This in contrast to Mantel’s ‘Beyond Black’ after which I was too scared to sleep.
As a non-Times subscriber, I couldn't read their full list. But I totally agree with you about Atonement, and indeed about McEwan in general. I think McEwan's early works are remarkable - The Cement Garden, The Comfort of Strangers, Black Dogs etc. But those wouldn't get onto a 21st century list - and every one of his later novels that I read (especially Atonement) disappointed me so much that I gave up reading him.
Have said it and will say it again: I loved Piranesi. The moment I finished it I was on vacations with my son, who hardly reads fiction because he is finishing a Philosophy PHD, so he is pretty busy. I insisted and he loved it too (and I must say I respect his taste in books). About Atonement I disagree with you Henry, of course you know about this and I am just a reader, but I really suffer with the book in the right way, I mean it touches me. And Hamnet is sobeautiful ! I suffer so much as a mother, but I liked it overall and enjoy the reading.
Wolf Hall is, in my opinion, Mantel's best novel. I found BUTB gripping, but less emotionally engaging. I agree that the first part of Beyond Black is superb, but there are parts in the second half that let it down, whereas Wolf Hall is consistently brilliant IMO.
What a difference re-reading The Go Between in late middle age compared to reading in my late teens. But both compelling and emotional experiences. I’ll return to it again.
The Inheritance of Loss is completely brilliant, but does Kiran Desai qualify? I thought she an India-born American? Am I wrong about that, or are we just insisting, and screwing the rules altogether? Quality will out!!!!
Totally agree about Piranesi, which is wonderful, being in (as should Beyond Black), and Atonement being out. I'd also have thought Sarah Moss would have got a look in for Ghostwall. Sarah Hall's Carhullan Army was tremendous, as was Jessie Greengrass's Sight.
I couldn't agree more about PIRANESI and losing ATONEMENT. I think Clarke is left off many lists simply because she writes "fantasy" (oh, that word). ATONEMENT, meanwhile, like most of McEwan's books, has a couple of absolutely brilliant sections in it—the guy ought to write out-and-out thrillers—but the total package is somehow...wrong. (So wrong, one of my kids, when he finished it, with it's "surprise!" ending, threw the book against the wall: it reminded him of all those short stories written by newbs, where the whole thing turns out to have been a dream.)
. I found The Glutton to be a captivating read, particularly due to its unique subject matter. Unlike many other selections on the list that merely recycle familiar plots, this story stands out with its originality and freshness.
i agree with lots of your takes - only the first half of atonement was good, but the go-between and chesil beach are better. on beauty is zadie smith’s masterpiece, and beautiful world is rooney’s best!
I am deeply offended that Piranesi is nowhere on this list. I do like Atonement, but don’t think it should be on this list. Will have to read The Go Between to compare.
I have one strong opinion. Wolf Hall is a better book than Bring Up The Bodies because it has to do the hard work of creating the man Cromwell and his world and it does it so well. I love the entire trilogy. Thanks for the list to go fishing.
too long since I read them so I don't have strong feelings, but I think you make a strong point yeah
I agree, David: Wolf Hall is the better novel. They are written in different styles, of course: the second has more traits of the 'thriller' than the first, and maybe that meant it had more popular appeal.
“Bodies” definitely has more Netflix series appeal! It’s interesting that BBC combined the first two books. I thought it was such a great adaptation. Most of the dialogue is from the novels.
I agree - BUTB is perfect for Netflix: plenty of action and sharp dialogue, whereas Wolf Hall is more 'Literary' in style, though there are superb set-piece dramatic scenes and images in it, too. I would have put both Mantel novels on any list of 'best novels' in place of certain others that have been selected. I also loved the BBC adaptation which was very well done.
I think they confined themselves to one per author, otherwise they said she would have taken all the slots, haha
When I read the trilogy a second time, Mark Rylance was in my head. That added to the experience.
Yes, as I read the dialogues, I heard the voices of all the actors and saw them in my mind.
It must just be me, because while the rest of the world fetes and lauds Sally Rooney, I find her novels almost unbelievably dull. Honestly, I tried, but kept dropping the book and jolting myself awake. This in contrast to Mantel’s ‘Beyond Black’ after which I was too scared to sleep.
I agree that Rooney's books are tedious, and B.B. is very eerie.
As a non-Times subscriber, I couldn't read their full list. But I totally agree with you about Atonement, and indeed about McEwan in general. I think McEwan's early works are remarkable - The Cement Garden, The Comfort of Strangers, Black Dogs etc. But those wouldn't get onto a 21st century list - and every one of his later novels that I read (especially Atonement) disappointed me so much that I gave up reading him.
The two of his I love are Saturday and A Child in Time
I gave up too. Perhaps I will try some of the earlier stuff.
I agree that The Cement Garden is an excellent and underrated novel, but I also enjoyed some, but not all, of McEwan's later books.
Have said it and will say it again: I loved Piranesi. The moment I finished it I was on vacations with my son, who hardly reads fiction because he is finishing a Philosophy PHD, so he is pretty busy. I insisted and he loved it too (and I must say I respect his taste in books). About Atonement I disagree with you Henry, of course you know about this and I am just a reader, but I really suffer with the book in the right way, I mean it touches me. And Hamnet is sobeautiful ! I suffer so much as a mother, but I liked it overall and enjoy the reading.
Have you read the Go Between? Makes a very … telling comparison
I haven’t but I will put it on my list. Thanks !
Bring Up The Bodies isn't even Hilary Mantel's best novel (which is Beyond Black).
must read…
Wolf Hall is, in my opinion, Mantel's best novel. I found BUTB gripping, but less emotionally engaging. I agree that the first part of Beyond Black is superb, but there are parts in the second half that let it down, whereas Wolf Hall is consistently brilliant IMO.
I will have to read the go-between but this is harsh on atonement!!! Movie was mid but the book it tops
It won't last. It's just the Go-Between but worse (and with the c word)
What a difference re-reading The Go Between in late middle age compared to reading in my late teens. But both compelling and emotional experiences. I’ll return to it again.
I need to reread yeah
Absolutely love a good list. And a good list debate!
The Inheritance of Loss is completely brilliant, but does Kiran Desai qualify? I thought she an India-born American? Am I wrong about that, or are we just insisting, and screwing the rules altogether? Quality will out!!!!
Totally agree about Piranesi, which is wonderful, being in (as should Beyond Black), and Atonement being out. I'd also have thought Sarah Moss would have got a look in for Ghostwall. Sarah Hall's Carhullan Army was tremendous, as was Jessie Greengrass's Sight.
yeah good point...
I couldn't agree more about PIRANESI and losing ATONEMENT. I think Clarke is left off many lists simply because she writes "fantasy" (oh, that word). ATONEMENT, meanwhile, like most of McEwan's books, has a couple of absolutely brilliant sections in it—the guy ought to write out-and-out thrillers—but the total package is somehow...wrong. (So wrong, one of my kids, when he finished it, with it's "surprise!" ending, threw the book against the wall: it reminded him of all those short stories written by newbs, where the whole thing turns out to have been a dream.)
I too hate that ending. Whereas the ending of Piranesi is marvellous
Haha, I remember thinking, "He's not *really* going there, is he? REALLY?"
PIRANESI, however, is one of those miracles that makes me think I might trade a body part to have written it.
I would put The Glutton in there, and agree about Atonement.
. I found The Glutton to be a captivating read, particularly due to its unique subject matter. Unlike many other selections on the list that merely recycle familiar plots, this story stands out with its originality and freshness.
100% agree with you on Piranesi, Henry.
genius book!
I entirely agree about Atonement. Tedious, pompous tosh masquerading as The Great Novel.
yep!
How can simply copying Woolf's style, as is done in the first part of the novel, be considered brilliant?
i agree with lots of your takes - only the first half of atonement was good, but the go-between and chesil beach are better. on beauty is zadie smith’s masterpiece, and beautiful world is rooney’s best!
I am deeply offended that Piranesi is nowhere on this list. I do like Atonement, but don’t think it should be on this list. Will have to read The Go Between to compare.
oh the go between is immense, enjoy!
I’m with you on Piranesi and agree that Rachel Cusk shouldn’t be anywhere near this list.