Yes, it’s about fathers and sons, but it’s also, crucially, about husbands and wives. Odysseus comes to learn - as we see in the scene with the bed test - that Penelope (periphron Penelope, paralelleling polymetis Odysseus) is his soulmate. The partnership of their marriage is something we don’t see again in western literature for a very long time.
What if Merry and Pippin after the Scouring of the Shire, had tracked down every one who collaborated or worked in the mill and made a ceremony of hanging them in revenge. That is how the killing of the maids at the end of The Odyssey seems to me. It hardly seems possible that the mind that created Nausicaa could be so unsympathetic to the plight of young women.
I'm the farthest thing from a Homer expert, but the old caution seems appropriate here: depiction is not endorsement!
When I read The Illiad (trans. Emily Wilson), my impression was that, though there was much depiction of heroic bloodshed, the poem's feelings about heroic bloodshed were actually rather ambivalent.
I love the way you've compared different translations of the same passages - it gives a wonderful insight into the difficulty of translation as an enterprise.
I have to comment on Ulysses, though. While Leopold Bloom definitely longs for a son -- his own son died in infancy -- Stephen Dedalus is not longing for a father-figure (even though he very much needs one). In fact, at the end of the novel, he refuses Bloom's offer of a bed for the night, preferring to wander, homeless, though Dublin. And his refusal comes on the heels of a shocking violation of Bloom's initial hospitality: Stephen sings a blood-libel ballad to Bloom, a Jew, in Bloom's house. Stephen values his freedom far more than comfort, security, or the paternal care he could have from Bloom.
Brilliant, as always, Henry. I like the focus on the family (!), as everybody else who interacts with Odysseus pretty much ends up dead (friend & foes alike).
I assume that your favorite translation is the D. C. H. Rieu revision (Penguin)? I've read Fitzgerald, Fagles, Lombardo, Wilson, and Verity (my favorite, so far), and look forward to Rieu when I next revisit the story.
I finally read Circe this year and it makes me want to go back to the Odyssey and read it again through Miller's lens of Odysseus as a kind of broken man. The great thing about our centuries long dialogue with Homer is we keep seeing it in new ways.
Stop taking it apart and enjoy the story. I fell in love with it in a January term class almost 50 years ago reading a prose understanding and as I sit here I gaze at a large poster of the entire poem on my wall. I have numerous versions/ translations on my library shelf, have cited it in sermons for 40 years and was the one cheering the trailer at the movies a few weeks ago.
Down deep it's about loyalty to family, to friends and to the greater good. And it runs both ways as the gods' loyalties are questioned too
I shouldn't speak for Henry, but I'm guessing he'd say that taking it apart--and putting it back together--is a very good way to enjoy a story! Just like some children prefer taking a toy apart over playing with it.
Oh, I think you've done us a service by making us run to our copies and check the parallels. And I had never encountered Butler's translation. So, that's a good thing
Yes, it’s about fathers and sons, but it’s also, crucially, about husbands and wives. Odysseus comes to learn - as we see in the scene with the bed test - that Penelope (periphron Penelope, paralelleling polymetis Odysseus) is his soulmate. The partnership of their marriage is something we don’t see again in western literature for a very long time.
What if Merry and Pippin after the Scouring of the Shire, had tracked down every one who collaborated or worked in the mill and made a ceremony of hanging them in revenge. That is how the killing of the maids at the end of The Odyssey seems to me. It hardly seems possible that the mind that created Nausicaa could be so unsympathetic to the plight of young women.
yes a very gruesome scene
I'm the farthest thing from a Homer expert, but the old caution seems appropriate here: depiction is not endorsement!
When I read The Illiad (trans. Emily Wilson), my impression was that, though there was much depiction of heroic bloodshed, the poem's feelings about heroic bloodshed were actually rather ambivalent.
I love the way you've compared different translations of the same passages - it gives a wonderful insight into the difficulty of translation as an enterprise.
I have to comment on Ulysses, though. While Leopold Bloom definitely longs for a son -- his own son died in infancy -- Stephen Dedalus is not longing for a father-figure (even though he very much needs one). In fact, at the end of the novel, he refuses Bloom's offer of a bed for the night, preferring to wander, homeless, though Dublin. And his refusal comes on the heels of a shocking violation of Bloom's initial hospitality: Stephen sings a blood-libel ballad to Bloom, a Jew, in Bloom's house. Stephen values his freedom far more than comfort, security, or the paternal care he could have from Bloom.
Brilliant, as always, Henry. I like the focus on the family (!), as everybody else who interacts with Odysseus pretty much ends up dead (friend & foes alike).
I assume that your favorite translation is the D. C. H. Rieu revision (Penguin)? I've read Fitzgerald, Fagles, Lombardo, Wilson, and Verity (my favorite, so far), and look forward to Rieu when I next revisit the story.
that is my favourite, yes, though I have not read them all...
Excellent stuff as always, Henry.
I finally read Circe this year and it makes me want to go back to the Odyssey and read it again through Miller's lens of Odysseus as a kind of broken man. The great thing about our centuries long dialogue with Homer is we keep seeing it in new ways.
Stop taking it apart and enjoy the story. I fell in love with it in a January term class almost 50 years ago reading a prose understanding and as I sit here I gaze at a large poster of the entire poem on my wall. I have numerous versions/ translations on my library shelf, have cited it in sermons for 40 years and was the one cheering the trailer at the movies a few weeks ago.
Down deep it's about loyalty to family, to friends and to the greater good. And it runs both ways as the gods' loyalties are questioned too
I shouldn't speak for Henry, but I'm guessing he'd say that taking it apart--and putting it back together--is a very good way to enjoy a story! Just like some children prefer taking a toy apart over playing with it.
2
Yes indeed I think this is a false distinction
Very much enjoyed Emily Wilson's translation a few years back and now looking forward to her Iliad.
Yes, this made me want to go back and see how Emily Wilson translated these passages.
I would have quoted her but my copy isn’t with me anymore
Oh, I think you've done us a service by making us run to our copies and check the parallels. And I had never encountered Butler's translation. So, that's a good thing
I much prefer the prose translations myself
Her Iliad is marvelous
FWIW, I preferred Caroline Alexander's.
That was supposed to be a response to Wilson's Iliad