Tolkien aside, who is one of the great novelists, I wouldn't normally include any of these authors, even though I happen to love some of them myself. Wodehouse is excellent but very over rated by his fans. Mostly I was listing older "genre" books to give a sense of the tradition. I was a Blyton addict as a child, but I don't think her work has many of the qualities that make Wind in the Willows great, for example.
There are few authors who match Wodehouse on use of language though. For that alone I think he ought to be read - and I'm so surprised he's not required reading in English schools!
As for Blyton, I agree her writing is not necessarily exceptional, but kids can't get enough of her books. So I always recommend her because she is great for getting children to love reading.
Fair enough! Would love some recommendations - the ones I can think of whom I'd rate highly for their prose (as opposed to themes, plot, characters, etc) are Nabokov, Tom Wolfe, and David Foster Wallace (though a bit too self-conscious). Any others?
How do you suppose Wodehouse is overrated? Personally, I fully disagree with your assessment of his merit, though my opinions hardly matter. In terms of the canon ... he is typically rated as too lite to be seriously considered. I keep a tally of bookstores I visit which carry his works -- the number is few.
He ought not to be someone's favorite, I guess you mean. Hard to respond to whether he is "very very good" or "*that* good." He was certainly prolific, which critics tend to frown upon. I find him occasionally matched but not bested. This quickly becomes a matter of who has read what. Unanswerable.
It is unlikely that any of us in this thread have read all the same books, but I agree with your Aris; in my reading, Wodehouse was at the very height.
I happen to be reading The Canterbury Tales at the moment and I can't help but feel that reading only the Knight's Tale as an introduction to CT would give a skewed impression. I think recommending (in addition to the Knight's tale) the Miller's Tale which immediately follows would offer a better insight into the breadth of Chaucer. It's not all high-minded knights and courtly love! The bawdiness of some of the tales has, for me at least, been quite fun and unexpected. And those two tales go nicely together, one being a parody of the other.
Oh man. I disagree fairly violently on this. It depends what you’re looking for. If you want to connect with the tradition in a strict sense of having the same reference world as the writers of the cannon lived and breathed, sure - and that’s important if that’s what’s the main thing for the reader. But if you want to connect with the writings of the Bible(s(?)) themselves across time and space and translation, more modern careful annotated translations are just super interesting and rich in my experience.
The idea that the King James Bible is the only literary version is a very bold claim with, it seems to me, a lot of implications on what the "literature" label can and cannot apply to that I don't know are worth committing to. I'm just an amateur, but I'm guessing more experienced and studied people from a lot of different schools and even ideological commitments would also find this jarring.
Ok if you’re just saying - “for knowing the English cannon and English literature qua English literature, king James is what to read” I don’t have a problem with it. I just dig exploring the literary potential of the bible outside of that context as well.
It was the version that many important writers in its wake would have used, and certainly for a long time the most popular English version available. Moreover, many of its particular translations, however inaccurate from a technical perspective, have become part of the rhythm and idiom of English itself, and particularly of its literary tradition. I can’t say for sure, but I want to say it held sway well into the 19th century. Certainly John Milton, for example, would have just read the original languages, Coleridge certainly the Greek portions, but not every poet and novelist could boast their erudition. I think one could reliably assume that Tennyson, for example, was deeply familiar with it, to cite just one example.
Happy to see one Trollope on your list but disappointed you left off George Gordon Lord Byron. His influence impacted generations even today. In ways he was similar to Austen being witty and satirical, and so funny though his poetry was less "tinsel" and more realistic than her novels. His reach had wide influence-- whether it was his poetry or the celebrity myth of himself. We find him everywhere in literature and in classical music. He is the heart of Romanticism in the image of the lost one.
Henry I am reading this again, making notes and organising my readings accordingly. For an engineer who loves to read but with no significant guidance in literature, this is a great blueprint . I’ve read classic but not in order. I would only say, can I skip the order until I read Middlemarch? ;-) It’s my choice for April as I will be traveling a lot and I really want to read it now 😊. Thanks again and looking forward to the monthly chat. I feel rejuvenating with all this learnings.
You can always the skip the order to read Middlemarch! I don’t think you have to be too strict about chronology, because this has to work for your life, but the more you can read in clusters the more you will see how things fit. So once you have read Middlemarch, capitalise on it with some other C19th novels and / or a poetry anthology perhaps. Glad you are enjoying it :)
Bookmarked your page. Having had a pretty good high school education and then some Great Books in college I've at least glanced through 1/3-1/2 of these, but I'm thinking about going back and filling in the gaps.
(My other alternative is the East Asian Canon, so I'm torn.)
I would sample a litre of both and see where you want to go. Like if the Tales of Genjii is what excites your imagination go for it. Or Arabian Nights or whatever. Follow your nose.
Alright, Henry, you convinced me to track down The Apple and the Spectroscope. And now --now -- I need to look into his book on Practical Fly-Tying too. T.R. Henn seems like ana mazing person! Thanks, as always!
The language is pretty similar to ours, probably it is the long sentences that are the problem? Read out loud for a few pages, or read short books, like Silas Marner, to get used to it, I think.
May I ask why the following were excluded?
- Agatha Christie (surely undisputed queen of genre fiction?)
- P.G. Wodehouse
- Tolkien
- Enid Blyton
- Frog and Toad
All hugely influential, surely part of the canon?
Tolkien aside, who is one of the great novelists, I wouldn't normally include any of these authors, even though I happen to love some of them myself. Wodehouse is excellent but very over rated by his fans. Mostly I was listing older "genre" books to give a sense of the tradition. I was a Blyton addict as a child, but I don't think her work has many of the qualities that make Wind in the Willows great, for example.
There are few authors who match Wodehouse on use of language though. For that alone I think he ought to be read - and I'm so surprised he's not required reading in English schools!
As for Blyton, I agree her writing is not necessarily exceptional, but kids can't get enough of her books. So I always recommend her because she is great for getting children to love reading.
I find modern kids don't like Blyton very much :( mine think she is dull!
Wodehouse is very good, but as I say, over rated, and plenty of authors can match him
Fair enough! Would love some recommendations - the ones I can think of whom I'd rate highly for their prose (as opposed to themes, plot, characters, etc) are Nabokov, Tom Wolfe, and David Foster Wallace (though a bit too self-conscious). Any others?
For prose alone? I'd start with the Oxford Book of Prose. From C20th Evelyn Waugh, Virginia Woolf, Elizabeth Bowen are the three who come to mind.
How do you suppose Wodehouse is overrated? Personally, I fully disagree with your assessment of his merit, though my opinions hardly matter. In terms of the canon ... he is typically rated as too lite to be seriously considered. I keep a tally of bookstores I visit which carry his works -- the number is few.
overrated by his most ardent admirers... he's very very good, but he is not *that* good
He ought not to be someone's favorite, I guess you mean. Hard to respond to whether he is "very very good" or "*that* good." He was certainly prolific, which critics tend to frown upon. I find him occasionally matched but not bested. This quickly becomes a matter of who has read what. Unanswerable.
*few relative to other authors in the English canon, I mean. Doyle, Wilde, Dickinson, Shakespeare, Woolf, etc., etc..
It is unlikely that any of us in this thread have read all the same books, but I agree with your Aris; in my reading, Wodehouse was at the very height.
Very interesting!
I happen to be reading The Canterbury Tales at the moment and I can't help but feel that reading only the Knight's Tale as an introduction to CT would give a skewed impression. I think recommending (in addition to the Knight's tale) the Miller's Tale which immediately follows would offer a better insight into the breadth of Chaucer. It's not all high-minded knights and courtly love! The bawdiness of some of the tales has, for me at least, been quite fun and unexpected. And those two tales go nicely together, one being a parody of the other.
omg ofc, I just wanted to give an intro
Well the suggestions here assembled make for an excellent intro.
This is fantastic, because you’re not only giving a list but resources to be selective. Many thanks !
Henry, you are an absolute gem.
:)
Exceptional overview. Thanks Henry. Lots of good information to digest and help folks get started.
*MH Abrams= Meyer Howard Abrams
Cool list, can’t wait to spend a lifetime making it through these. Why the King James Bible and not modern version?
Thanks! It is significantly more important in literary terms.
Oh man. I disagree fairly violently on this. It depends what you’re looking for. If you want to connect with the tradition in a strict sense of having the same reference world as the writers of the cannon lived and breathed, sure - and that’s important if that’s what’s the main thing for the reader. But if you want to connect with the writings of the Bible(s(?)) themselves across time and space and translation, more modern careful annotated translations are just super interesting and rich in my experience.
well this is a substack, and a post, dedicated to literature...
The idea that the King James Bible is the only literary version is a very bold claim with, it seems to me, a lot of implications on what the "literature" label can and cannot apply to that I don't know are worth committing to. I'm just an amateur, but I'm guessing more experienced and studied people from a lot of different schools and even ideological commitments would also find this jarring.
where did I say only?
Ok if you’re just saying - “for knowing the English cannon and English literature qua English literature, king James is what to read” I don’t have a problem with it. I just dig exploring the literary potential of the bible outside of that context as well.
It was the version that many important writers in its wake would have used, and certainly for a long time the most popular English version available. Moreover, many of its particular translations, however inaccurate from a technical perspective, have become part of the rhythm and idiom of English itself, and particularly of its literary tradition. I can’t say for sure, but I want to say it held sway well into the 19th century. Certainly John Milton, for example, would have just read the original languages, Coleridge certainly the Greek portions, but not every poet and novelist could boast their erudition. I think one could reliably assume that Tennyson, for example, was deeply familiar with it, to cite just one example.
Happy to see one Trollope on your list but disappointed you left off George Gordon Lord Byron. His influence impacted generations even today. In ways he was similar to Austen being witty and satirical, and so funny though his poetry was less "tinsel" and more realistic than her novels. His reach had wide influence-- whether it was his poetry or the celebrity myth of himself. We find him everywhere in literature and in classical music. He is the heart of Romanticism in the image of the lost one.
I hate Byron! And I think Romanticism in Britain was much more significant among other authors.
Henry I am reading this again, making notes and organising my readings accordingly. For an engineer who loves to read but with no significant guidance in literature, this is a great blueprint . I’ve read classic but not in order. I would only say, can I skip the order until I read Middlemarch? ;-) It’s my choice for April as I will be traveling a lot and I really want to read it now 😊. Thanks again and looking forward to the monthly chat. I feel rejuvenating with all this learnings.
You can always the skip the order to read Middlemarch! I don’t think you have to be too strict about chronology, because this has to work for your life, but the more you can read in clusters the more you will see how things fit. So once you have read Middlemarch, capitalise on it with some other C19th novels and / or a poetry anthology perhaps. Glad you are enjoying it :)
Love this! Thank you! One comment. No Dostoevsky?
The Double is on there I think
I think medieval romance might not be a bad place to start for Game of Thrones fans.
yes, definitely, and a good history of the Wars of the Roses too, and then some Shakespeare!
Bookmarked your page. Having had a pretty good high school education and then some Great Books in college I've at least glanced through 1/3-1/2 of these, but I'm thinking about going back and filling in the gaps.
(My other alternative is the East Asian Canon, so I'm torn.)
I would sample a litre of both and see where you want to go. Like if the Tales of Genjii is what excites your imagination go for it. Or Arabian Nights or whatever. Follow your nose.
I shall be bookmarking this list and referring to it time and again. Thank You!
(That Apple and Spectroscope book is a bit pricey though)
glad to hear it! it might be in the library?
Alright, Henry, you convinced me to track down The Apple and the Spectroscope. And now --now -- I need to look into his book on Practical Fly-Tying too. T.R. Henn seems like ana mazing person! Thanks, as always!
I attempted to read Dickens' "Bleak House" but found the nineteenth-century language a bit hard; any suggestions for overcoming this? Thanks!
The language is pretty similar to ours, probably it is the long sentences that are the problem? Read out loud for a few pages, or read short books, like Silas Marner, to get used to it, I think.
Henry, I appreciate you taking the time to respond!
always happy to answer such queries, lmk know if these ideas do not work, dickens is esp good for read aloud
Yeah, from what I’ve read about Dickens, I gather that he was the consummate 19th-century entertainer! So he should be fine for reading aloud!
Loved Kenneth Rexroth 100 poems from the Chinese too. The beauty of that simplicity. It makes me want to know the language.
I know my next exploration, appreciated!
I love how this is approached from the lens of innovation. A fabulous resource, thank you!