Having now read many of the takes I think I find yours the most persuasive. Quite a bit of resonance with Christian Lorentzen's, which I also liked. Like you I don't care if adaptations take liberties; the more liberties the better, if anything. But they do need to be good on their own terms. Wilson's review in the LRB was fine, I suppose, but seemed to miss the point. (And it really wasn't witty enough--an LRB takedown needs to have a certain degree of flair.)
I'm still an Iliad person, though. We all have to die, after all.
I believe it's a fair adaptation of the original, and I was deeply moved when, after many twists and turns, we were shown the actual sack of Troy. The casting choices that were so controversial worked very well for me. People laughed about Elliot Page playing the character of an ancient soldier, but he is very convincing playing a shade.
In ancient times, people gathered around a bard to listen to this timeless story. Our grandfathers read it, perhaps in Greek; our fathers in a shiny translation; and I read different adaptations and related works, but never a full translation of the original. I invited my nephews to the screening, and they now know this story through Nolan.
Reading this " but the modern world is Odyssean: great migrations, gap years, road trips; we have lived with Odyssean technology for centuries: trains, planes, and automobiles; we all have careers, which means ‘journey through life’; our highest aspiration is still to undertake the new quest in space" after reading Alex Tabarrok's piece in today's MR that quoted: "most people in the world have never flown in an airplane. Most do not own a car or a bicycle" made me pause at your review. Perhaps Nolan is seeing a world more like the Iliad and perhaps that is the real world today where most people DON'T journey, so that the Odyssey is new and fresh.
I went into the movie expecting to have exactly these sorts of criticisms, and I actually do share a lot of them. The movie failed in most of the ways I expected it to fail. It won me over, however, in virtue of succeeding in other ways to a far greater extent than I had imagined it would.
You mention the Iliad, but the text that my favorite section of the film(the sack of Troy) most clearly draws from, in my view, is book 2 of the Aeneid. So perhaps I’m biased because that’s the ancient epic I’m most familiar with(having worked directly with the Latin instead of simply reading a translation), but I was very much impressed by how convincingly Nolan pulled off a sequence whose literary equivalent I had a good deal of familiarity with. Of course, I hadn’t been expecting to return to Troy after the horse, and so I found it very surprising, and even surprisingly emotional, to see that portion of the story more fully realized later in the film—a simple trick, but an effective one.
It’s also worth mentioning that I saw this one in a packed theater, and the entire audience began clapping three separate times. These days that’s a rare and precious experience in its own right.
Oh! I couldn't disagree me. I went to see it with very low expectations and absolutely LOVED it. I was swept up. I enjoyed every moment! And I've been thinking about it on and off ever since!
Saw it today, and it certainly felt like it took Odysseus ten years to get home. Such a long, noisy, fighty film! No lotos-eating in the auditorium. I was as desperate as Penelope by the end. I really needed Odysseus to string his bow so that we could all get to go home, not just him. Did Ralph Fiennes not do it better in The Return?
Resonates with what I felt after watching it. I thought I was being gaslit with the near universal acclaim it’s garnered in most most major news services.
I found your and Emily Wilson's analysis to be the only two ones that seem genuine. I rather like that your take on the art rather than a preconceived position. I am much more of an Iliad person, though I have read multiple versions of the Odyssey, I think we really need to read the poem and not be bothered by a film as 24 books of poetry are hard to condense into a three hours film. I think we all need to have more verse in our lives. I may pass as I have other older films to watch.
This is something I've been suspecting this movie to be, and now I'm even more unconvinced I want to go and see it ;) A part of me says "you should go and check for yourself", but I'm afraid I would have to drag myself by the ears to the cinema. Moreover, I'm always wary when something hits the cinemas with so much hype, particularly from the industry press, which is suspiciously raving about it.
Marek Węcowski, a Polish ancient history professor, just publish a book in Poland called "Homer For Our Times" (the title is basically self-explanatory - about how Homer is a great guide for modern people). I'll probably stay at home and read that ;)
Given your erudition I’d be interested in your thoughts, if you ever the chance, about Wilson’s comments about Odysseus in the Introduction she wrote to her version of The Odyssey.
Jonathan Pageau, who like you is an insightful analyst and interpreter of story, agrees with you about Nolan’s Odyssey. He compares the film to a Trojan Horse because Nolan deploys the Woke casting, etc. as a disguise to tell an inspiring story that affirms the values of Western civilization:
I have read her Greek Euripides very happy with them, I have screened first bits of Iliad and Odyssey, they are a bit different from the past but she actually may be a bit more of a literalist than past translators. If you want the closest to the Greek Richmond Latimore tried to do line for line, that said most prefer Fagels or Fitzgerald as poets. I think she has several interviews on her choices, all translators make choices hers seem well thought out. From her Bacchae and Helen she made very good choice in translation.
Couldn’t disagree more which goes to show how much subjective taste goes into watching a movie like it. It was exactly what I want from an epic movie in terms of scale, ambition, action and with just enough clever story, thematic expression, and morality. I think we differ because I am only surface level familiar with Homers epic. And I think Nolan makes super entertaining movies like Oppeheimer, with just the right amount of intellectuality. Also, think most film experts and those who work in the business would disagree with you diametrically on the filmmaking craft and editing style.
In the full review I make clear that he can do whatever he wants to the source material. In fact, I quite liked how he handled that. I was just bored by the movie.
I looked at the characters: mostly male, fit and buff, females stereotyped and reportedly on screen briefly. Next I considered the subject matter: graphic violence in almost every episode. Sounds like one bloodbath after another. Any inclination to see this film? No, none whatsoever. I would spend the time clutching my hands till they ached and looking away.
Would I read it again? Oh yes. Especially the Emily Wilson translation.
Odysseus is not Oppenheimer. He had no remorse over defeating Troy, or sacking cities on his way home. His remorse was over the loss of his brethren warriors, and the loss of home, and time.
The Greeks were at war with Troy for 10 years. The idea that there was a breach of “The Law of Zeus” by tricking the Trojans with the horse is farcical. Such an interpretation was unknown in the ancient world. that “trick” made Odysseus celebrated for being the legendary tactician and warrior that he was.
Nolan needs to stick with comics book characters, not characters that undergird our understanding of Western Civilization, with all is messiness and contradictions.
Having now read many of the takes I think I find yours the most persuasive. Quite a bit of resonance with Christian Lorentzen's, which I also liked. Like you I don't care if adaptations take liberties; the more liberties the better, if anything. But they do need to be good on their own terms. Wilson's review in the LRB was fine, I suppose, but seemed to miss the point. (And it really wasn't witty enough--an LRB takedown needs to have a certain degree of flair.)
I'm still an Iliad person, though. We all have to die, after all.
Ah thanks. I did not see Lorentzen, shall look it up. They cut my para with lots of bad dialogue examples, which for me was part of the boredom.
I watched it yesterday and I loved it.
I believe it's a fair adaptation of the original, and I was deeply moved when, after many twists and turns, we were shown the actual sack of Troy. The casting choices that were so controversial worked very well for me. People laughed about Elliot Page playing the character of an ancient soldier, but he is very convincing playing a shade.
In ancient times, people gathered around a bard to listen to this timeless story. Our grandfathers read it, perhaps in Greek; our fathers in a shiny translation; and I read different adaptations and related works, but never a full translation of the original. I invited my nephews to the screening, and they now know this story through Nolan.
It will survive another generation.
I agree about adaptation and casting
The Sack of Troy scene(the second one) was also the bit that really got me.
Reading this " but the modern world is Odyssean: great migrations, gap years, road trips; we have lived with Odyssean technology for centuries: trains, planes, and automobiles; we all have careers, which means ‘journey through life’; our highest aspiration is still to undertake the new quest in space" after reading Alex Tabarrok's piece in today's MR that quoted: "most people in the world have never flown in an airplane. Most do not own a car or a bicycle" made me pause at your review. Perhaps Nolan is seeing a world more like the Iliad and perhaps that is the real world today where most people DON'T journey, so that the Odyssey is new and fresh.
Those who do not travel are also integral to the Odyssey!
I went into the movie expecting to have exactly these sorts of criticisms, and I actually do share a lot of them. The movie failed in most of the ways I expected it to fail. It won me over, however, in virtue of succeeding in other ways to a far greater extent than I had imagined it would.
You mention the Iliad, but the text that my favorite section of the film(the sack of Troy) most clearly draws from, in my view, is book 2 of the Aeneid. So perhaps I’m biased because that’s the ancient epic I’m most familiar with(having worked directly with the Latin instead of simply reading a translation), but I was very much impressed by how convincingly Nolan pulled off a sequence whose literary equivalent I had a good deal of familiarity with. Of course, I hadn’t been expecting to return to Troy after the horse, and so I found it very surprising, and even surprisingly emotional, to see that portion of the story more fully realized later in the film—a simple trick, but an effective one.
It’s also worth mentioning that I saw this one in a packed theater, and the entire audience began clapping three separate times. These days that’s a rare and precious experience in its own right.
Oh! I couldn't disagree me. I went to see it with very low expectations and absolutely LOVED it. I was swept up. I enjoyed every moment! And I've been thinking about it on and off ever since!
Saw it today, and it certainly felt like it took Odysseus ten years to get home. Such a long, noisy, fighty film! No lotos-eating in the auditorium. I was as desperate as Penelope by the end. I really needed Odysseus to string his bow so that we could all get to go home, not just him. Did Ralph Fiennes not do it better in The Return?
have not seen the return … maybe I will
Do.
Resonates with what I felt after watching it. I thought I was being gaslit with the near universal acclaim it’s garnered in most most major news services.
Diametrically opposed to NYT review. So, wait until it hits streaming, then..
I think I will be the minority yes
I found your and Emily Wilson's analysis to be the only two ones that seem genuine. I rather like that your take on the art rather than a preconceived position. I am much more of an Iliad person, though I have read multiple versions of the Odyssey, I think we really need to read the poem and not be bothered by a film as 24 books of poetry are hard to condense into a three hours film. I think we all need to have more verse in our lives. I may pass as I have other older films to watch.
Your entire review was a great read.
I have no interest in all the back-and-forth about this film; I simply don’t want to sit in a movie theater for that long.
When my wife said she wanted us to see it this weekend because she had read so many glowing reviews, I forwarded her yours.
Her key takeaway: “Since when the hell do you read GQ Australia?”
I was surprised that they asked me, but very pleased!
This is something I've been suspecting this movie to be, and now I'm even more unconvinced I want to go and see it ;) A part of me says "you should go and check for yourself", but I'm afraid I would have to drag myself by the ears to the cinema. Moreover, I'm always wary when something hits the cinemas with so much hype, particularly from the industry press, which is suspiciously raving about it.
Marek Węcowski, a Polish ancient history professor, just publish a book in Poland called "Homer For Our Times" (the title is basically self-explanatory - about how Homer is a great guide for modern people). I'll probably stay at home and read that ;)
empty comment so I can remember to read after watching the movie
Emily Wilson’s “translation” is, in your view, very good?
Yes
Given your erudition I’d be interested in your thoughts, if you ever the chance, about Wilson’s comments about Odysseus in the Introduction she wrote to her version of The Odyssey.
Too long since I read it to remember but I am not a reader of Greek
Jonathan Pageau, who like you is an insightful analyst and interpreter of story, agrees with you about Nolan’s Odyssey. He compares the film to a Trojan Horse because Nolan deploys the Woke casting, etc. as a disguise to tell an inspiring story that affirms the values of Western civilization:
https://youtu.be/K3wkrDbRgDs?si=ZcERR5Omz80_OOB5
I have read her Greek Euripides very happy with them, I have screened first bits of Iliad and Odyssey, they are a bit different from the past but she actually may be a bit more of a literalist than past translators. If you want the closest to the Greek Richmond Latimore tried to do line for line, that said most prefer Fagels or Fitzgerald as poets. I think she has several interviews on her choices, all translators make choices hers seem well thought out. From her Bacchae and Helen she made very good choice in translation.
Couldn’t disagree more which goes to show how much subjective taste goes into watching a movie like it. It was exactly what I want from an epic movie in terms of scale, ambition, action and with just enough clever story, thematic expression, and morality. I think we differ because I am only surface level familiar with Homers epic. And I think Nolan makes super entertaining movies like Oppeheimer, with just the right amount of intellectuality. Also, think most film experts and those who work in the business would disagree with you diametrically on the filmmaking craft and editing style.
In the full review I make clear that he can do whatever he wants to the source material. In fact, I quite liked how he handled that. I was just bored by the movie.
Did you find the Dune movies boring too? Because the second Dune is similar to this movie in terms of sound, scale, and intensity.
I looked at the characters: mostly male, fit and buff, females stereotyped and reportedly on screen briefly. Next I considered the subject matter: graphic violence in almost every episode. Sounds like one bloodbath after another. Any inclination to see this film? No, none whatsoever. I would spend the time clutching my hands till they ached and looking away.
Would I read it again? Oh yes. Especially the Emily Wilson translation.
Odysseus is not Oppenheimer. He had no remorse over defeating Troy, or sacking cities on his way home. His remorse was over the loss of his brethren warriors, and the loss of home, and time.
The Greeks were at war with Troy for 10 years. The idea that there was a breach of “The Law of Zeus” by tricking the Trojans with the horse is farcical. Such an interpretation was unknown in the ancient world. that “trick” made Odysseus celebrated for being the legendary tactician and warrior that he was.
Nolan needs to stick with comics book characters, not characters that undergird our understanding of Western Civilization, with all is messiness and contradictions.
M