I know you didn't ask for it, but this is the Pandarus line that jumped out to me. Doesn't it seem like something out of Auden?
"Till then I'll sweat and seek about for eases,
And at that time bequeath you my diseases."
Maybe I am imagining the connection, but that he would write something that one of our best from the 20th century might also write is astounding to me.
no one speech in particular. Thersites is a brilliant provoker. He infuriates other characters. The Frost persona isn't nearly as cynical but there is that same kind of inevitability in Fire and Ice. Both of these are great, he says, for destruction. It is a sharp wit, both as a theology and a statement about love. But the cleverness eats its own tail. The poem is impenetrable. Maybe Thersites infuriates others so much because he is always telling them how things will end. And he is usually right. "What's become of the wenching rogues? I think they have swallowed one another. I would laugh at that miracle--yet in a sort lechery eats itself. I'll seek them." 5.4
Troilus is very modern. I just read it for the first time a few weeks ago, so please take it with a grain of salt. But Shakespeare has a knack for this. I’m on the edge of my seat when Thersites and Hector meet on the battlefield. So much cynicism in that play, but it feels fresh to me. Like Auden or Frost.
Some say the world will end in fire…is like a very Thersites take on theology.
And some of Panderus’s dialogue reminds me of Auden. Near the end when he is delirious waxing about the state of things.
which Thersites speech are you thinking of? Frost was a big Shakespeare reader
I know you didn't ask for it, but this is the Pandarus line that jumped out to me. Doesn't it seem like something out of Auden?
"Till then I'll sweat and seek about for eases,
And at that time bequeath you my diseases."
Maybe I am imagining the connection, but that he would write something that one of our best from the 20th century might also write is astounding to me.
Yeah agree he’s another Shakespearean
no one speech in particular. Thersites is a brilliant provoker. He infuriates other characters. The Frost persona isn't nearly as cynical but there is that same kind of inevitability in Fire and Ice. Both of these are great, he says, for destruction. It is a sharp wit, both as a theology and a statement about love. But the cleverness eats its own tail. The poem is impenetrable. Maybe Thersites infuriates others so much because he is always telling them how things will end. And he is usually right. "What's become of the wenching rogues? I think they have swallowed one another. I would laugh at that miracle--yet in a sort lechery eats itself. I'll seek them." 5.4
Troilus is very modern. I just read it for the first time a few weeks ago, so please take it with a grain of salt. But Shakespeare has a knack for this. I’m on the edge of my seat when Thersites and Hector meet on the battlefield. So much cynicism in that play, but it feels fresh to me. Like Auden or Frost.
Yeah I agree.
I love that you brought Claude into the conversation!
I love that he loves Johnson!