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Julianne Werlin's avatar

Great discussion. I'm not sure you can dispense with feet since they define meter; it's the interaction between the template (meter) and underlying linguistic stress (rhythm) that's so interesting, as your discussion makes clear. I do think that we could do better at formulating the rules that, in practice, govern what counts as metrical within different contexts, as you suggest. For instance in English you can always promote the final syllable of a dactylic word (like vanity) so that the final unstressed syllable falls in a stressed position; it's fine. Apparently that's not OK in Russian (according to Nabokov's book on meter). There are things you can do with elision in the 18th century that you can't in the 19th. In the Renaissance you often have the option of shortening or lengthening diphthongs to fit the meter. And then there's a whole range of things that are sort of OK and sort of not; you would probably need to take a probabilistic approach. It would be interesting to see these historically specific aspects of meter / rhythm spelled out in a clear way.

Jon's avatar

I find Derek Attridge's opinions (theories?) most interesting on this count. Maybe you could snag an interview with him! He treats poetic rhythm in English as relying more on "beats" than anything else, and describes how English language's stress-timed nature allows it to glide over the top of the underlying beat structure.

I think that's what we're seeing when we spot all these loose-iambic lines, that sometimes appear more like anapests, or something else entirely. The stress-timing of English allows it to "work" regardless.

I am also fairly sure there's theories of Milton that attempt to demonstrate that he's more of a "Syllabic" poet than a strictly Iambic Pentameter poet. More on this: from what I can tell, Christopher Ricks' ideas of the "heroic line" kind of incorporates the iambic part rather than the strict repeating pentameter part into great English poetic lines.

Again, this is all based on my pretty weak understanding. I do find it amazing how loosely understood this stuff tends to be, and also how hidden away is the firm discussion about it. I think a lot of academics would rather spent their careers discussing "themes" than metre.....

Now what I'd really like to know is a firm explication of Manley Hopkins' "sprung rhythm".......

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